UCL talking points: Flawless Bayern, Slot's switch, VdV's worldie, more

The Chaaaaampiooooons League delivered yet another matchday of compelling action this week.

We've had statement wins (Bayern Munich beating Paris Saint-Germain 2-1 in Paris), end-to-end draws (Barcelona held 3-3 by Club Brugge), some shock losses (Pafos defeating Villarreal 1-0) and, to cap it all off, a Puskas contender from Tottenham Hotspur defender Micky van de Ven.

This is what you get with Europe's elite club competition, and this week has provided plenty to talk about as the league phase reaches its halfway point.

Read on as ESPN experts Beth Lindop, Sam Tighe, Rob Dawson and Gab Marcotti offer their thoughts on Matchday 4.

- Champions League table: Bayern first, Ajax wallowing in last place
- Dawson: Foden using Champions League to prove England credentials
- Ogden: In attack and defense, Bayern show why they're UCL favorites

Q1. After weeks of conceding early goals and losing to teams they should be beating, Liverpool and manager Arne Slot went "back to basics" in a sense, moved Florian Wirtz to the left wing, and kept a clean sheet in defeating Real Madrid(!) 1-0 at Anfield. Is this a turning point for them, with Manchester City up next on Sunday?

Marcotti: I've said all season that integrating Wirtz was going to take time, and would be very difficult to do if it was going to be in the hole in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Why? It's not a position he has played before (not with this set-up around him anyway), it's especially hard when you have four new starters in a team. As talented as he is, Wirtz is a 22-year-old moving from playing in the Bundesliga in front of 26,000 fans at a mid-size club, to the Premier League and one of the biggest clubs in the world.

I don't doubt that his future at Liverpool might be in that role, but right now is too soon.

I think it's too early to speak of a "turning point" for Liverpool if, by that, you mean have they solved their tactical issues. That's a heavy lift and I think in many ways they will only get things to click once they integrate a regular center forward. But obviously beating Real Madrid is a massive confidence boost, and they felt far more comfortable in that scheme.

Lindop: A football season is a marathon, not a sprint, and Slot and his players will know they still have plenty of work to do to show they are real contenders for Europe's biggest prizes this term. But after looking worryingly unbalanced in the opening months of the campaign, Slot's decision to revert back to the midfield three that helped his team to Premier League glory last season -- Ryan Gravenberch, Dominik Szoboszlai, Alexis Mac Allister -- certainly seems to have given Liverpool a much better shape.

Wirtz has already shown enough to suggest he could be a star for Slot's side, but he has struggled at times with the physicality of midfield, and playing him in the forward line against Real Madrid afforded him the freedom to roam without as much defensive responsibility. The big games keep on coming, though, and Man City at the weekend will be another tough test of just how much this side have turned the corner, if at all.

Tighe: If Liverpool beat Man City on Sunday, I'm happy to call it a turning point. That's an if, of course, but I can't deny that the way they took Real Madrid apart was incredibly impressive, with a number of things finally clicking into place.

No longer are Szoboszlai and Gravenberch the only two players keeping this team afloat. There appear to be answers at right back, left wing and left back; there are answers to their tactical balance issues; and Mohamed Salah is showing pleasing signs of life.

All of this is a massive win for Slot, who has come under immense pressure to find a winning formula, fast, with an expensively assembled, gold-gilded squad. But for a team who have struggled so badly for so much of this season, I'm looking for more than two performances -- excellent as they were against Madrid and Aston Villa) -- before announcing that the Reds are back.

Dawson: It feels like a turning point in terms of results. Sometimes you just need to break the cycle of defeats, and they've done that by beating Aston Villa and Real Madrid without conceding a goal. It will naturally lift the mood after six defeats in seven, and they'll head to Manchester City on Sunday a lot more confident than perhaps they would have done if the game was a couple of weeks ago.

Slot only made one change to his team between the games against Villa and Madrid -- fitness permitting, he will want to keep something close to the same XI against City. Everything looked more connected with Szoboszlai, Mac Allister and Gravenberch as the midfield three, and Wirtz on the left.

The fullbacks are key, too. Conor Bradley has struggled at times this season, but he was fantastic against Vincius Jnior. Andrew Robertson has to keep his place ahead of Milos Kerkez.

Q2. Bayern have won every game (17) in every competition to open the 2025-26 season ... not bad for a team that famously missed out on many of its top transfer targets in the summer. After beating defending champs PSG in Paris this week, are they the best team in Europe?

Marcotti: I have them as favorites alongside Arsenal and ahead of PSG. The French champions ought to be concerned about Ousmane Dembl's continuing fitness issues and Achraf Hakimi's injury. Throw in Gianluigi Donnarumma's departure at the end of the transfer window, and that's three big stars from last year who are unavailable or have clouds hanging over them. I also know better than to write off Real Madrid, Liverpool, Barcelona, Chelsea and even Inter in a knockout competition.

That said, it's pretty remarkable what they're achieving without two starters like Alphonso Davies and, especially Jamal Musiala. They'll be back in December or the new year and, as the cliche goes, it will be like two new signings. They're running away with the Bundesliga, which should afford them the opportunity to rest and rotate (as will Germany's endless winter break). But sure, there are weak spots too.

Dayot Upamecano is on an expiring contract. Harry Kane is phenomenal, but has no natural back up (sorry, Nicolas Jackson). Manuel Neuer has been great, but he's also 39. Still, you've got to love how negative they were all being when the window closed, missing out on Wirtz and Nick Woltemade, only for Vincent Kompany's side to rattle off so many wins in a row.

Lindop: It has certainly been a pretty special start to the campaign for Bayern. There's been a lot of talk this season about how Liverpool have missed the dynamism of Luis Daz and, red card against PSG aside, he has taken to life in Germany like a duck to water, with 10 goals already this season in all competitions.

Kane is, of course, a phenomenon and as Gab said, Bayern still have some top-class players to come back into the team. The signs are very promising and Kompany is doing a tremendous job. That said, every team -- no matter how good -- goes through the odd tough patch in a season and it will be interesting to see how Bayern fare when faced with some adversity. Their upcoming clash with Arsenal promises to be a real blockbuster.

Tighe: The early signs say yes, they are the best in Europe right now. The winning run is incredible and so are the accompanying performances. They've wiped the floor with pretty much everyone they've faced in the Bundesliga and remained perfect in the Champions League.

This victory in Paris looked like a statement: For as long as they had 11 men, until Diaz was sent off just before half-time, they were superior to the reigning European champions. Kane is firing in goals at a record rate, the supporting cast -- sans the injured Davies and Musiala -- looks great, and there seems to be calm among the influential, older headers in the dressing room.

It's worth remembering, though, that the team playing the best football in November isn't guaranteed to win anything; they'll need to maintain this all the way through to May to find the success they crave.

Dawson: It's always hard to know how good Bayern Munich are because they're so much better than the rest of the Bundesliga. A perfect record at this stage of the season is impressive, but most of the teams they face domestically are miles off their level.

The Champions League is a better gauge of where they're at and beating holders Paris Saint-Germain in their own backyard is a statement win. PSG haven't quite rediscovered the form they showed in the second half of last season, but it's still a massive result for Kompany and his players. For all the talk about Kane's form, Diaz has quietly scored 10 goals in 16 games following his summer move from Liverpool.

Bayern have got the attacking players to match anyone in Europe and they've still got Musiala to come back. It's still early, but they look like Champions League contenders.

Q3. Tottenham defender Micky van de Ven scored one of the goals of the tournament so far, with a lung-bursting 70+ yard run from box to box before scoring against F.C. Kbenhavn. Brilliant goal or lucky one?

Marcotti: You can't score like this without some measure of good fortune. The difference, I guess, is if Neymar or Lionel Messi do it, we don't even ask the question of luck. But yeah, Van de Ven is a large, strong man who is frighteningly fast once he gets the long limbs pumping, which makes him hard to stop.

Let's appreciate it for what it is: A blue-collar guy having his moment. But don't expect to see this again.

Lindop: You can question the defending. It was poor from Kbenhavn, who had numerous chances to halt the Dutchman's progress before he could even think about scoring. But that should take nothing away from what was a truly outstanding goal.

It's been a bit of an indifferent campaign for Tottenham so far, but Van de Ven has been one of the bright sparks. Keeping him fit feels absolutely integral for Thomas Frank's side.

Tighe: I was fortunate enough to be in the stadium for this goal and, quite frankly, it took my breath away. He literally went box to box, beating half a team, and had the composure and strength to finish with aplomb.

I can't entertain the idea that it was lucky not only because it would spoil what is the greatest goal I have ever seen live inside a stadium, but also because Van de Ven has form for this kind of thing. He bagged two assists last season, against Everton and Manchester United, by running great distances with the ball before laying it off for a teammate to finish. Looking back even further, he made this something of a trademark move of his back in the Netherlands, as his FC Volendam highlight reel is full of these long, bustling runs.

Van de Ven has a borderline unique ability to carry the ball for a center back, and he uses it brilliantly.

Dawson: It's partly down to poor defending, but it's definitely not lucky. It's not like he's taken a heavy touch and the ball has somehow bobbled through a crowd: he's fully in control all the way. He's not manipulating the ball with his feet to avoid being tackled.

And it's not just pace, because obviously he's quick. It's a goal that's down to his ability to accelerate. You can see during the run that there are times when Kbenhavn players think he can nick the ball away, but in the blink of an eye, it's gone and so has Van de Ven.

It's an unbelievable goal, and he deserves particular credit for finding enough composure to finish after running from box to box -- his heart will have been going a million miles an hour once he realised he had a chance to score. It was one of the truly great Champions League goals.

Q4. Bara's high line and disastrous defending was the culprit in their shocking 3-3 draw at Club Brugge. (They really should have lost, though VAR ruled out Brugge's fourth after a foul on Wojciech Szczesny). What's going wrong and what's the solution? Is this going to doom them? Or is their plan to just hope Lamine Yamal can keep bailing them out?

Marcotti: The high line itself isn't the problem, though, admittedly, it looks shocking when you see them concede certain goals.

I think it's a combination of three things. To play a high line you need an aggressive press to ensure the opponent doesn't have time and space to play the pass over the top. Barca aren't going to have that if Marcus Rashford and a half-fit Yamal are out there. You also need defenders who can understand timing and have sense of position and chemistry. That was lacking against Brugge, possibly because Eric Garca and Ronald Arajo haven't played together that often.

And finally -- this may seem obvious -- you need very good defenders who are comfortable running back towards their own goal. Talent papers over a lot of cracks. I'm not sure I'd rank any of Barcelona's center backs as "very good" except for Pau Cubars and he's 18 and, inevitably, won't have the consistency and experience of others.

Lindop: Last season, Barcelona were mere minutes away from progressing to the Champions League final, where they would have been expected to go toe-to-toe with eventual winners PSG. At present, however, it is hard to imagine Barcelona reaching the final, with their defensive woes a real issue this term. Injuries have played a part and the return of some key personnel could help tighten things up, but playing a high line always comes with risk. While Yamal is, of course, an outstanding talent, relying exclusively on an 18-year-old to negate that risk feels like a big gamble from head coach Hansi Flick.

Tighe: Flick really only has one speed, one way of playing. If you ask him to compromise, or to change, he'll just say no. Knowing that, it feels like wasted energy to bemoan the fact Barcelona operate using an exceedingly high defensive line. Instead, it's worth looking at why it seems to be failing, as they haven't kept a clean sheet since September and former Wolverhampton Wanderers forward Carlos Forbs absolutely took them apart on Wednesday.

A high defensive line is one of the trickiest tactical ploys to pull off at the best of times, but even more so when you're playing makeshift back lines (who must squeeze up in unison) and forward lines (who must instigate the press). There's a host of injured players who could return and improve its functionality, chief of which might actually be goalkeeper Joan Garca, who has already hinted that his one-on-one prowess could be pivotal to this tactic working.

Dawson: Playing a high defensive line is complicated and comes with a lot of associated risk, but Flick will feel that it's worth it.

For it to work, everything has to move together. There has to be enough pressure on the ball all over the pitch and defenders who can read each perfectly. If any part of it is off, it looks calamitous. The 3-3 draw with Club Brugge isn't the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last, either.

Part of the debate is whether Flick should persist with it even when he hasn't got his first-choice players available. Sometimes, however, it's better to be consistent with your message rather than tinker with instructions from game to game.

The aggressive way Barcelona defend is one of the reasons why they're one of the most entertaining teams to watch. Whether it's the best way to win the Champions League will only become apparent in the knockout rounds.

Q5. Victor Osimhen. He's always scoring a ton of goals but gets no love/respect/interest from the bigger clubs. Galatasaray are in the top 8 thanks to his goals, but we just had a summer of big spending in the Premier League go by without him even so much as being mentioned. Why?

Marcotti: He's actually the top goalscorer in the Champions League. And only Arsenal, Internazionale, Bayern Munich and Man City have more points than Galatasaray. The knock on Osimhen is always the same: wages, agents, blah blah blah. Napoli spent two years trying to shift him but to no avail. I think the insistence from some clubs about wanting to deal with the same agents and same clubs might have cost him. But yes, it's mind-boggling how he was overlooked in such a cavalier manner. I hope he proves them all wrong, takes Galatasaray far in the Champions League, wins the Africa Cup of Nations and, why not, the World Cup too!

Lindop: It does feel really bizarre that a player of Osimhen's calibre hasn't been snapped up by a Premier League club yet. That's no disrespect to Galatasaray, who have a rich history and a great fan base. But, at a time when so many teams have been crying out for a striker, it is strange he has been overlooked. Still, by powering his side almost single-handedly towards a place in the Champions League knockout stages, he is proving that he can deliver when the pressure is on.