It's that time again, when Earth's premier stock car series pits a fearsome foursome of drivers against one another amid the cactuses of Phoenix Raceway with NASCAR's most coveted Cup on the line.
A year ago, this race and the title chase was overshadowed by a debate concerning the worthiness of the final four combatants, especially when Joey Logano was crowned champion at race's end. This time around, no such argument exists; these four men representing two superpower teams have all been in the title conversation since the first green flag of NASCAR's 77th season waved over the Daytona 500 nearly 10 months ago.
NASCAR is a sport built on traditions, and as has become tradition in recent years, each of the Championship 4 chatted with ESPN's Ryan McGee ahead of Sunday's highest-finisher-takes-all 312-lap desert duel for the title, interviewed in the same order that they clinched their spots in the title bout. The legend who is suing the sport, the wunderkind finally reaching his potential, the two-time reigning Daytona 500 champ and the only member of this group to have hoisted the Cup before.
Denny Hamlin | No. 11 Toyota Camry | Joe Gibbs Racing
2025: 6 wins, 4 poles, 14 top-5s, 17 top-10s, 4 DNFs
2025 Playoffs: 2 wins, 3 poles, 3 top-5s, 4 top-10s, 1 DNF
Playoff history: 19th appearance, 14 wins
Best championship finish: 2nd, 2010
Phoenix career stats: 40 starts, 2 wins (March 2012, November 2019), 1 top-5, 23 top-10s, 1 DNF, 10.6 average finish
McGee: First off, congratulations on 60 career wins. When you won at Las Vegas to start this postseason's Round of 8, that not only put you in this final four, but you are also now tied for 10th on the Cup Series wins list. That can't feel real.
Hamlin: That was the mark. You have to set goals, and entering this season that was the one for me. And to do it in my 20th full-time season, and I'm 44. It's crazy.
McGee: Not just that, but you're as good now as you've ever been. This might be the best season you've ever had.
Hamlin: And I was pretty nervous going into February. I got a new crew chief. I'm another year older. I don't have my FedEx on the car, so I don't have my blankie anymore. All of that heading into a contract year. I was asking, "Is this the beginning of the end?" Well, it turned out to be just another new chapter.
McGee: You are driving for a championship contender in Joe Gibbs Racing, but you also own a team that wins races with 23XI. The only other racer I can think of who pulled this off was Dale Earnhardt. It's a club of two. But he also didn't host a podcast, wasn't still having babies, and oh by the way ...
Hamlin: He wasn't suing the sport? (Laughs)
McGee: He wasn't suing the sport for antitrust. How do you balance all of that?
Hamlin: I'm a workaholic. I truthfully hope I don't have, like, a heart attack at 50. I don't know what I'm doing to my body internally. I know what my mind is. I know that my hair is grayer this year than it's ever been. My hobbies take a backseat. I used to have a lot more time to go play golf and do a lot of other fun things and hang out with friends, and that just doesn't happen much anymore, because of all my responsibilities.
I just never want to feel like I didn't give 100 percent to whatever it is I'm doing. It's like chasing 60 wins at the beginning of this year. I knew that I can't let one race slip by. But then I've also got the lawsuit going on, and I've got to present all the information I know about that to the attorneys. So, I'm always on these calls and just it's just nonstop.
So, all it does is it's just made my days longer, my stress levels higher, and I've somehow still been able to lock in when it comes to Sundays on what I've got to do. I love to work because I love to see results when I do work. I love to see it come to fruition.
McGee: I know you follow other sports. It was two years ago, right about now, when I wrote a column about the most awkward championship weekend in the history of college football. Michigan won the Big Ten while it was in a legal battle with the Big Ten over a sign-stealing scandal. Oregon and Washington played in the Pac-12 championship game as they were ripping the conference apart. So, if it's you on Sunday night, finally winning that Cup that has eluded you, is it different because of what's going on? Are you going to celebrate the championship and then move on to whatever you have to do in a courtroom later?
Hamlin: Yeah, it's going to be separate. It has to be. It looks like once I'm done -- and I am going there to win, so let's assume I win it -- once I'm done with the championship stuff, you have about a two-week period before the trial starts. And then, obviously, I will shut off championship anything and then just focus on that. Because then that's the nearest goal to accomplish. So, I do separate them. That's the only way. There's no way I can intermingle the two, because fighting the good fight as an owner is one thing. Doing the best I can as a driver is something just totally, totally different.
Chase Briscoe | No. 19 Toyota Camry | Joe Gibbs Racing
2025: 3 wins, 7 poles, 15 top-5s, 19 top-10s, 4 DNFs
2025 Playoffs: 2 wins, 1 pole, 5 top-5s, 7 top-10s, 1 DNF
Playoff history: 3rd appearance, 2 wins (both this year)
Best championship finish: 9th, 2022
Phoenix career stats: 9 starts, 1 win (March 2022), 2 top-5s, 4 top-10s, 2 DNFs, 18.4 average finish
McGee: There have always been names thrown at us as the next big thing. You, the Indiana guy, were definitely presented to us as the next Tony Stewart. You even drove his No. 14 car. Now, with a new team in Joe Gibbs Racing, you are finally a title contender. How does it feel?
Briscoe: To have a 1-in-4 chance at being a champion, that's what you dream about being your whole young racing life, right? And even now, it's pretty crazy to think about. Truthfully, it's something that even when I got to the Cup series, I didn't know if I would ever have that, especially just those first couple years at Stewart-Haas Racing, the end of that team, and where they were performance wise.
McGee: The old guard always says you guys today don't have to earn it like they did, driving for struggling teams first before getting into the big-league rides. But you have always been old school, so ...
Briscoe: Without Stewart-Haas, I would never in a million years be talking to you right now. That team was such an integral part of my childhood. Tony was literally my hero. I rooted for the 14 car every single weekend. Just to get to drive the 14 car was like this unbelievable thing, and truthfully, I thought I would retire in that car. I thought I was going to run that thing for my entire career.
But when everything came crashing down and then this opportunity came up, it was certainly just a mindset shift. That was especially true the first half of the season. I learned really, really quickly that, OK, it's different now.
McGee: Expectation levels?
Briscoe: Yessir. The expectation is to go win. The biggest culture shock for me was when we went to Bristol in the spring. All four of us [Joe Gibbs drivers] finished inside the top eight. I was fourth. But none of us won. I remember going into that week's competition meeting thinking that this will be a good one. We got in there, and you would have thought all four of us ran worse than 30th. I was just like, "Holy smokes." And even when you win, it's like, "Well, why didn't we win by more?"
But now I feel like it's just second nature, like that expectation is normal now. Every little detail is now magnified, and you know all about being perfect in every category, and I've just never had that before in my career.
McGee: Do you dig that? Or does that keep you awake all night?
Briscoe: I like it because I've always been the type of person that I don't want people to sugarcoat it. If I am doing something wrong, I need to know so I can work on it. And you know, in the past, not that I wasn't doing stuff wrong, but I didn't have anybody telling me, "Hey, you need to be doing this better. This better, this better. Here's all the analytics, all the data."
McGee: Speaking of approaches, how do you approach Phoenix? Do you call your teammates who have been there, Hamlin and Christopher Bell, even though you're racing Hamlin? "Hey, dudes, how do you handle a weekend like this?"
Briscoe: Truthfully, nothing different. I feel like I am in a great spot, not just in racing, but in my life. This is something that I was literally talking about with my wife today. I feel like all these other guys that I'm racing against, this is their identity, whether they win a championship or not. I'm just in this perspective of: Do I want to win it? Absolutely. Am I going to do everything I can as a competitor? Absolutely. But my identity isn't going to be determined by if I win this championship or not.
When I die, I'm more worried about where I'm going to spend eternal life. I can't take this championship with me. I'm more worried about being the best husband and father I can be than being the best race car driver. I guess that sounds probably terrible from a competitor side. I want to win that Cup so badly. And I know I'm different in that sense than the guys I'm racing against. And I think, truthfully, that's working for me. There's literally been zero pressure, because at the end of the day, like I just I know that it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.
I want to win. I will give my best effort, I think everyone knows that about me, but it's also not going to determine my happiness in life.
William Byron | No. 24 Chevrolet Camaro | Hendrick Motorsports
2025: 3 wins, 3 poles, 11 top-5s, 16 top-10s, 4 DNFs
2025 Playoffs: 1 win, 1 poles, 2 top-5s, 3-top 10s, 1 DNF
Playoff history: 7th appearance, 2 wins
Best championship finish: 3rd, 2023 and 2024
Phoenix career stats: 15 starts, 1 win (March 2023), 3 top-5s, 9 top-10s, 0 DNFs, 10.8 average finish
McGee: Well, it's the end of the season, which means you and I are talking about the Championship 4.
William Byron: (Laughs) Yeah, now we just need to talk again next week because hopefully I haven't finished third again.
McGee: To that point, what do you take with you into this finale that you did not have with you the two years prior?
Byron: I think that this time around we know we have the ability to fight our way out of a corner. I have been thinking about last weekend at Martinsville and winning that race. It's really the first time in my career where I was backed into a corner, and our reaction to that is that we were a machine. So, the fact that we pulled that off the way we did tells me that we have what it takes this weekend. I've never doubted that, but now we know it.
McGee: We are all going to make a big deal out of a Hendrick Motorsports vs. Joe Gibbs Racing showdown. And to a lot of people it is a very big deal that you, the regular-season champion, are in this group of four, because that's not always been the case.
Byron: I know everyone is having a big conversation about changing the points system, but this year I think we have the four best teams racing for the championship at Phoenix. I really do. It's hard to argue against that if you look at the body of work for all four of us this year. And as a racer, that's what you want. Winning a championship is always a huge deal, but when you can point to the three guys that you beat and it is this three this year, that makes it even better.
McGee: it's hard to believe this is your eighth season in Cup. You are 27 now, but most still think of you as the young guy, and you are in this four.
Byron: People are always reminding me of that! (Laughing) What I get a lot of is, "Hey man, there's no need to panic or press because you still have so many years ahead of you," but I have this real sense of urgency about career goals, especially winning that first championship. Yes, I plan on being around for a while, and I guess I am young, but you can't assume or take for granted that you will ever be in this position again, even though that's been the case the last few years.
McGee: Just look at the old dude in this group, right?
Byron: Exactly. Denny was racing for championships so early in his career and has been in the fight so many times, but he is still trying to get one. I appreciate people saying that to me because I think they're looking out for me, but everyone working on that 24 car this weekend, our approach is going to be like this is our only chance.
McGee: Like y'all are backed into a corner?
Byron: That's it.
Kyle Larson | No. 5 Chevrolet Camaro | Hendrick Motorsports
2025: 3 wins, 1 pole, 14 top-5s, 21 top-10s, 2 DNFs
2025 Playoffs: 0 wins, 0 poles, 3 top-5s, 5 top-10s, 0 DNFs
Playoff history: 9th appearance, 11 wins
Best championship finish: 1st, 2021
Phoenix career stats: 22 starts, 1 win (November 2021), 10 top-5s, 14 top-10s, 2 DNFs, 10.7 average finish
McGee: This is your third appearance in the Championship 4. I know you consider it your fourth because you weren't in the drivers fight but you were in the owners title chase in '22. You're also the only one in this group who has closed the deal and held that Cup. Is that an advantage?
Larson: Advantage, I don't know. Denny's been here so many times. Byron's here every year now, it seems like. And Briscoe isn't rattled by anything.
What's different for us is how our team got here. In other years, we won our way in and did it early in the round, so we had time to prep. We won Vegas in 2021 and '23 and Homestead in '22. This time around we got in on points and you don't know that for sure until Martinsville was over. In years past, we have already been working on Phoenix, no matter what races you had between our win and the finale. Not this time. But I feel ready to go. I feel confident.
McGee: There's all this talk about changing the championship format. Mark Martin is leading an old-school campaign to go back to a 36-race straight-line path to the title, no postseason. Others say keep it where it is. It feels like the truth will likely be in the middle, maybe a three-race showdown between the final four. Are you good with the way it is, or are you ready for something else?
Larson: I don't think what we have right now is terrible, but I think there are other formats that could be just as exciting, or more exciting, and crown a champion in a more fair way. In Cup, it's kind of anybody's game and whichever one of us wins it would be deserving. But look at the Trucks and Xfinity right now. They have two guys who have dominated this year and they could both easily get wiped out and not be the champion. You can be fair but also be exciting.
McGee: Starting next season, NASCAR will rotate the season finale around tracks after decades of being at Atlanta, Homestead and now Phoenix, each one for years and years. You like the idea of mixing it up?
Larson: I love Homestead because it's a great track for me. And I know the Penske guys have loved finishing at Phoenix because they are so great there. That's why we're all glad they aren't in this four! But the championship race deserves to move around. I think you look at the Super Bowl and the NBA All-Star game and things like that, I think different cities deserve to host a championship race.
McGee: Between Byron and Denny, this idea of, "Hey, you were always the young guy, but now you're the old veteran" is a theme. The Artist Formerly Known as Young Money is now the oldest guy at Hendrick Motorsports. How did that happen?
Larson: I didn't really recognize that until here lately. Yeah, 33 sounds a lot older than, you know, 29 back when I won the championship. This was my 12th season or so in the Cup series, which is pretty amazing. I'm grateful for you being around as long as I have. I'm grateful to be able to call myself a Cup champion, but I'll be even more grateful if Sunday night I can call myself a two-time Cup champion.
